Lived Experience Forum

[chibam]

Content/trigger warning

So I just watched this brief news/currant affairs segment about a mental health patient who recently committed suicide. And after all these years, the emphasis is still on the suicide, and not on the patient's suffering.

The segment was all about how her family had to go through all the death rigmarol, like ID-ing the body, and I'm not trying to deny the hardship that they go through in the wake of a suicide. But after all this time, people still don't really care about the suicidal person's suffering.

The "problem" that everybody's complaining about is that the suicidal person is dead.

The "lessons to be learned" that they were hinting at were all about creating more restrictive practices that are all geared towards making it more difficult for a suicidal person to end their life; not about doing a better job of making that person's life worth prolonging.

Nobody genuinely cares about how unspeakably agonizing a suicidal person's life is. The only thing anyone cares about is how to constrain them so securely that they can't possibly die, no matter how much they might want to. So long as the patient is alive, everything else is acceptable.

Nobody is really on our side, no matter how much they might insist otherwise. This is what it is to be truly alone.

I can't say much more because this forum is very skittish regarding the morality of suicide and suicide prevention. I've probably said too much as it is.

But if anyone of any influence does happen to see this - try, just for a little while, to considder that maybe, just maybe, the anguish of suicidal people might matter just a little more then your obsession with keeping them alive.

[tyme]

Thanks for sharing @chibam ,

Content/trigger warning

I hear what you are saying. I wonder if suicide is the last straw so that people actually 'wake up' to realise how they could have better supported the person? 

I hear what you are saying behind the anguish a suicidal person can be enduring. In the ideal world, things would be very very different.

I'm hearing the focus is on suicide as opposed to the anguish the person is suffering staying alive?

I probably won't go as far as to say people don't sincerely care, however, I can say things can be done better.

I recognise this can be a sensitive topic for many. 

If you feel you need to speak to someone, please reach out to:

Lifeline 13 11 14

Suicide Call Back Service 1300 659 467

If you need urgent support, please contact 000

[chibam]

Content/trigger warning

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@tyme wrote:

I hear what you are saying. I wonder if suicide is the last straw so that people actually 'wake up' to realise how they could have better supported the person? 

Well obviously I can't speak for all cases, @tyme , but the people in the video didn't seem to be of that mindset. They were more focussed on complaining about how the mental health staff didn't keep a close enough eye on their suicidal family member to stop them from committing suicide.

The suffering of their dead family member seemed to be a secondary concern, at best, for them.

It leaves me wondering: if a reliable consensus of therapists were to agree that there was no hope for this woman; that there was no possible way her life could've been made worth her while, would the family have approved of her suicide? Or would they still insist that she needed to live out a long, natural lifespan, because their distaste for her death was more significant (according to them) then her anguish?

It's easy to make those sorts of moral judgements when you aren't the one paying the price.

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@tyme wrote:

I probably won't go as far as to say people don't sincerely care, however, I can say things can be done better.

They care - up to a point. Namely, that we don't violate their moral code about suicide being 'wrong'.

Their #1 priority is keeping people alive, at the expense of everything else, even compassion. Caring about the suffering individual comes as a secondary concern, after inforcing that first priority.

I guess at this point it comes down to how you define concepts like "sincerity". But for me, for someone to sincerely care about someone else means that they place that person's needs and aspirations above any personal agenda they might have towards that person. Otherwise, where do we draw the line between what is authentic care and what is usage/exploitation?

[D1ng0]

TW: Suicide, stigma

Content/trigger warning

If it helps at all, I've often found televised segments/documentaries to be far less nuanced and sensitive than they should be when discussing suicide, which is why I generally avoid watching media which discusses suicide. I've encountered far more empathy and sensitivity in average people than in televised media. Media organisations edit interviews, cut out certain statements, and manipulate to offer a final product, with the ultimate goal being financial. Not that all media should be distrusted, or whatever, but it's a pretty important factor when you're watching something that bulldozes a painful, complex issue... or when they erase certain voices entirely. When the goal is to increase viewership, make money, and (arguably) exploit a terrible event, the outcome is almost inevitably harmful. I'm sure some people within media organisations have good intentions, but that often gets lost in the process. Decent, sensitive media often feels like the exception, when it comes to mental health.

I hope you're doing okay, as it sounds like this TV spot was pretty upsetting for you. It would've upset me a lot, too. I'm struggling with suicidal thoughts and haven't found a way to tell anyone about it, practitioners aside. I think much of society has an unhelpful, limited understanding of suicidal thoughts and why they occur, which is a great shame, and it hurts people like me. (I'd say "us", but I don't want to presume that you're suicidal.)

I won't get into the discussions of morality when it comes to hypothetical suicidal situations, as I find that type of theorising very dangerous for my mental health. (I skipped over parts of this thread as a result.) I'd like to stay out of that conversation entirely. I'll leave it at this... I hope you're feeling alright today, and I want you to know that you're not alone in feeling angry about society's views on suicidal people. On a human level, I feel for you. There's a lot of progress to still be made. In my opinion, the way that many media organisations handle suicide, and even just depression overall, is shameful.

As a little nugget of hope... During a recent convo with an elderly woman, suicide came up. She was so beautifully understanding and empathetic towards suicidal people, even without knowing she was talking to a suicidal person. That gave me hope. There is sincerity to be found.

[NatureLover]

I agree, @chibam . 

Content/trigger warning

People often say that a person who has committed suicide is "selfish". But the way I see it, that person's agony and pain were unbearable. 

[Bow]

TW

i think a lot of mental health professionals just don’t know what to do with patients that are highly suicidal. Yeah they can be put in a locked inpatient facility, but how long can that go on for? I see people on social media who are inpatient for years. Medication and therapy obviously not helpful. 
I’ve struggled with suicidality for years. I’ve made many serious attempts. I get nowhere in therapy because they are just trying to put bandaids on my many current crises while never getting to a point of being able to deal with the many underlying issues. Trauma on top of trauma and needing to be medically stable with an eating disorder is a vicious cycle. 
I absolutely hate those sayings…. Suicide is selfish. And something along the lines of leaving the family behind in pain…. But what about our pain??? It is absolutely agonising. It’s absolutely exhausting. Unless you’ve walked this path you really have no right to comment. 

yeah we are a burden on society. A nuisance to the health care system. I’m sure it would cost alot less to just let us go. Let us leave.

sorry doubt I’m adding to this discussion. I’m not ok. And I’m tired of being a burden and talking the same crap to people who no longer know how to help. 

[chibam]

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@Bow wrote:

sorry doubt I’m adding to this discussion.

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No, @Bow , it's an important contribution. Thank you! 🙂🤗

And I agree with you, by the way. I think a lot of therapists just don't know what to for us.

But there are other things going on, too. Such as therapists being bound by stupid rules that forbid them from really helping their patients; and being compelled by law to maintain the "suicide is wrong" dogma, regardless of what their genuine feelings about that dogma might be with regards to a specific patient's case.

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@Bow wrote:

I’m not ok. And I’m tired of being a burden and talking the same crap to people who no longer know how to help. 

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Same.

[chibam]

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@NatureLover wrote:

Content/trigger warning

People often say that a person who has committed suicide is "selfish". But the way I see it, that person's agony and pain were unbearable. 

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I agree, @NatureLover . "Unbearable", "unjustified", "senseless"... so many adjectives that could be applied there.

And yes, it is so absurdly one-sided and hypocritical to call suicide "selfish". I hate it when people do that. But unfortunately, it's not a stance we get much leeway to publicly challenge.

[Eve7]

I could add to this but it's probably better that I don't right now. There is pain, a lot of pain and nowhere to turn for help.

[Bow]

@Eve7  😞 feeling ya